Purchasing a DCT700 from eBay

[tjw363]

I can purchase an unused DCT700 for about $50 from a guy on eBay. My question is will Verizon activate it for me?

[MercerNick65]

Absolutely not. See the 4th message at the top of the forum.

[Vumes]

They probably won't BUT, take into consideration this hypothetical....

Let's say, the guy selling it on eBay who we will name "Bob" had Fios TV and after he disconnected, he didn't return the box. At this point Verizon will most likely end up charging him for it. Well now that he has been charged for it, why wouldn't Verizon re-activate the box if it was bought and paid for?

Why couldn't Bob sell it on eBay to get some cash if he already was billed and paid for said box? Why would Verizon not re-activate the box that has been bought and paid for by Bob, who then sold it to someone else?

Verizon, your insight on this would be great. Thanks.

[Vumes]

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@Vumes wrote:

They probably won't BUT, take into consideration this hypothetical....

Let's say, the guy selling it on eBay who we will name "Bob" had Fios TV and after he disconnected, he didn't return the box. At this point Verizon will most likely end up charging him for it. Well now that he has been charged for it, why wouldn't Verizon re-activate the box if it was bought and paid for?

Why couldn't Bob sell it on eBay to get some cash if he already was billed and paid for said box? Why would Verizon not re-activate the box that has been bought and paid for by Bob, who then sold it to someone else?

Verizon, your insight on this would be great. Thanks.

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Sanchez,

I understand Verizon's position, but can you please comment on my statement above? I would like to know how this situation would work out. Thanks.

[Techman28]

Vumes,

I'll set the record straight. If you purchase a STB from ebay its considered Intellectual stolen property which Verizon cooperates with the VeRO program through Ebay. These auctions are not suppose to even take place. Verizon will not activate a STB purchased off of ebay or any third party provider. That is Verizon's stance on the Ebay issue.

TheSanchez provided a more Verizon response and is 100% correct. My response is in regards to Ebay

Message Edited by Techman28 on 05-26-2009 05:50 PM

[Vumes]

I understand that, but I still have not received an answer to the situation that I posted. What if that situation took place..? Not even involving eBay, just that situation? Why does no Verizon personnel want to elaborate on that?

[KenAF]

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@Vumes wrote:
I understand that, but I still have not received an answer to the situation that I posted. What if that situation took place..? Not even involving eBay, just that situation? Why does no Verizon personnel want to elaborate on that?

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Think of it this way:  Verizon never disclaims ownership.  If you claim to lose a DCT700, and then pay the ~$100 lost equipment charge, that does not necessarily mean you own it and can use it without fees.  Verizon will not waive the STB fee under any circumstances.  They'll ask for their equipment back if you find it; they may or may not refund you the lost equipment charge.

As a practical matter, the situation you describe is rare, since only a small percentage of customers actually pay the bill for unreturned equipment.

Message Edited by KenAF on 05-26-2009 07:26 PM

[Vumes]

I just got off the phone with the Fiber Solutions Center and here is Verizon's official stance. After speaking with David, he informed me that should the customer fail to return the STB, he gets billed for it. If the customer pays, then it is considered ownership, but Verizon will not re-activate that box without it coming back into Verizon ownership. Should that box be recovered by Verizon, the original customer will get a full credit back for the price that they charged him for not returning the box.

So there it is, an answer to my question and to anyone else who was just wondering.

[JerseyJoe]

I'm still not sure why this isn't a violation of FCC regulations.  The Motorola DCT700 is a device that Verizon has specifically approved for operaton on its cable TV system, so why should it matter who owns the box?  Section 629 of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended by the Telecommunications Act of 1996 (47 USC 549) was specifically written to prevent the cable companies from requiring that customers purchase or lease the equipment required to access the video programming on their systems.  In this case, the equipment was purchased from Verizon, at some point, so why should the customer be required to sell the gear back to Verizon, who will then lease it back to the customer, before they deign to reauthorize it on their system?

[KenAF]

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@JerseyJoe wrote:
I'm still not sure why this isn't a violation of FCC regulations.  The Motorola DCT700 is a device that Verizon has specifically approved for operaton on its cable TV system, so why should it matter who owns the box?

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Motorola does not sell DCT700 devices to consumers.  Motorola sells DCT700 boxes exclusively to cable companies.  As a general rule, cable companies will not authorize stolen or lost equipment.

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@JerseyJoe wrote:
Section 629 of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended by the Telecommunications Act of 1996 (47 USC 549) was specifically written to prevent the cable companies from requiring that customers purchase or lease the equipment required to access the video programming on their systems. 

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The FCC is responsible for carrying out that legislation.   Per FCC regulations, the CableCard standard satisfied the requirements of the Telecommunications Act of 1996.

Customers are free to purchase CableCard boxes that are available at retail to the public.  That includes the Moxi and TivoHD.  Over time, more choices should become available, including more TVs with integrated CableCard slots.

Message Edited by KenAF on 07-20-2009 02:02 PM

[JerseyJoe]

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KenAF wrote:

Motorola does not sell DCT700 devices to consumers.  Motorola sells DCT700 boxes exclusively to cable companies.  As a general rule, cable companies will not authorize stolen or lost equipment.

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As the previous poster pointed out, if you fail to return an STB to Verizon, they charge you for it.  If you pay the charge and Verizon accepts the payment, then you own it.  It's ridiculous and inaccurate to call it "stolen" if someone has paid hundreds of dollars for it.  Furthermore, it doesn't matter that Motorola only sells exclusively to the cable companies.  Verizon purchased the box from Motorola, then sold it to the consumer by charging the "lost box" fee. Once the consumer owns it, he's free to sell it to whomever he chooses.

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KenAF wrote:

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JerseyJoe wrote:
Section 629 of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended by the Telecommunications Act of 1996 (47 USC 549) was specifically written to prevent the cable companies from requiring that customers purchase or lease the equipment required to access the video programming on their systems. 

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The FCC is responsible for carrying out that legislation.   Per FCC regulations, the CableCard standard satisfied the requirements of the Telecommunications Act of 1996.

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Yes, I'm aware of that, too.  I should have phrased my post more carefully.  I know that what Verizon is doing does not run afoul of current FCC regulations.  My point was that the spirit of the law that directed the FCC to develop the regulations is to prevent MVPDs like Verizon from doing exactly what they're doing here: forcing the customer to buy or rent a piece of equipment from the cable company.  In this case, we're talking about simply authorizing a piece of equipment that Verizon already uses throughout their network, but they don't want to give up the recurring rental revenue, so they arbitrarily enforce a "we have to own it" rule.

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KenAF wrote: 

Customers are free to purchase CableCard boxes that are available at retail to the public.  That includes the Moxi and TivoHD.  Over time, more choices should become available, including more TVs with integrated CableCard slots.

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And yet we still have to rent the CableCARD itself from Verizon, for almost as much money as an STB.  Look, I'm not blaming Verizon for all of this, there's plenty of blame for the FCC, here, too.  Congress' idea was that the consumer wasn't supposed to have to buy or rent anything from the cable companies in order to access their programming, just like the Carterfone decision finally freed us all to buy own telephones from someone other than Ma Bell.  CableCARD is better than nothing, but the fact that I still have to pay $4 a month per CableCARD to use my own DVRs is maddening, and the fact that it *still* doesn't provide full two-way communication for VOD, PPV, and SDV is doubly so.

 

[KenAF]

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As the previous poster pointed out, if you fail to return an STB to Verizon, they charge you for it.  If you pay the charge and Verizon accepts the payment, then you own it.  It's ridiculous and inaccurate to call it "stolen" if someone has paid hundreds of dollars for it.  Furthermore, it doesn't matter that Motorola only sells exclusively to the cable companies.  Verizon purchased the box from Motorola, then sold it to the consumer by charging the "lost box" fee. Once the consumer owns it, he's free to sell it to whomever he chooses.

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Cable companies (and Verizon) don't treat lost or recompensated equipment as customer owned.  Like every other cable company, Verizon corporate considers the fee to be for "failure to return the equipment."  They do not consider it as a fee to "purchase the equipment."

Verizon and other cable companise are not compensated for the overwhelming majority of all lost and unreturned equipment, and it would be a logistical nightmare for cable companies to keep track of what specific DCT700 units were "paid for" across all of their various service areas.  Most larger cable companies now use DCT700 boxes purchased from Motorola, and they have no interest in working together to create and maintain a database of authorized and unauthorized (i.e. stolen) devices.

[philhu]

This is wrong. Verizon/Cable company DOES consider it customer owned. Please read their response a few items back. Therefore, if it is customer owned, why can it not be authorized? The white elephant in the room is that Verizon, et al., do not want 'possibly modifed' equipment authorized, so they don't

[prisaz]

The DCT700 is also used by other providers. If it is a Verizon version it is stolen property. If it is not a Verizon version, it will not have Verizon firmware and can not be activated on the Verizon network. Only option for a non Verizon STB is to use a Cablecard provided by Verizon at a monthly fee.

When the person was charged for the device, it was to cover the cost of the lost hardware. Not to transfer ownership. All Verizon Fios TV Set Top Boxes remain the property of Verizon. No exceptions.

Message Edited by prisaz on 05-25-2009 08:14 PM

[Vumes]

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@prisaz wrote:

When the person was charged for the device, it was to cover the cost of the lost hardware. Not to transfer ownership. All Verizon Fios TV Set Top Boxes remain the property of Verizon. No exceptions.

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So what you're saying is that even though "Bob" paid Verizon to cover the  cost of the lost hardware, after a few months go by, he can then return it to Verizon and get his money back? If so great, but if not, then Verizon has indeed transferred ownership to him by taking his money, and not giving him a refund a couple of months down the road when he gets the box back to him. I'm sure a judge would agree that this is by all means is a transfer in ownership should Verizon not take the box back and refund his money at a later date.

Message Edited by Vumes on 05-25-2009 05:25 PM

[prisaz]

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@Vumes wrote:

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@prisaz wrote:

When the person was charged for the device, it was to cover the cost of the lost hardware. Not to transfer ownership. All Verizon Fios TV Set Top Boxes remain the property of Verizon. No exceptions.

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So what you're saying is that even though "Bob" paid Verizon to cover the  cost of the lost hardware, after a few months go by, he can then return it to Verizon and get his money back? If so great, but if not, then Verizon has indeed transferred ownership to him by taking his money, and not giving him a refund a couple of months down the road when he gets the box back to him. I'm sure a judge would agree that this is by all means is a transfer in ownership should Verizon not take the box back and refund his money at a later date.

Message Edited by Vumes on 05-25-2009 05:25 PM

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I am sure they would be happy to give "Bob" his money back if "Bob" paid the rental cost of the boxes for said time and the serial numbers were correct and the boxes were un damaged. I guess Verizon Employees would need to chime in on this. I do not work for Verizon so I have just voiced my interpretation of what is known. It would be really nice to get free boxes activated. They may activate them if they are Verizon boxes, but then you would still need to pay the monthly cost and return them to Verizon when the actiation terminates at a later date. Best to just pay them the $3.99 a month for the DCT700 boxes and spare the trouble. If you have a digital cable ready TV or set top box, the cable cards are still a monthly cost no matter who the provider is. FCC states they must make it compatible but not free.

[KenAF]

Verizon's will not activate any Motorola box unless they provide it. This is company policy and there are no exceptions.

Note Motorola cable boxes are sold exclusively to cable companies in the United States.  The DCT and QIP boxes cannot be purchased or ordered by consumers in the states.  All DCT700 and QIP boxes on ebay and craigslist were stolen at some point, and only rarely do the cable companies ever receive any form of compensation from the customer (less than 5% of the time, according to industry publications).

If you want to own the box, your only choices are CableCard products like the TivoHD and Moxi.  Unlike the Motorola boxes, this equipment is sold directly to end users.  Both require a CableCard ($3.99/mo) from Verizon to receive all FiOS SD and HD channels.

Message Edited by KenAF on 05-25-2009 09:20 PM

[tjw363]

All DCT700 and QIP boxes on ebay and craigslist were stolen at some point

You sure about that?

Verizon gave away, in certain areas up to 3, DCT700's due to digital transition as recent as 10/2008 (as per a Google search).

If someone is selling them they are far from stolen in my very humble opinion. Perhaps not used as defined but far from stolen.

[KenAF]

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@tjw363 wrote:

All DCT700 and QIP boxes on ebay and craigslist were stolen at some point

You sure about that?

Verizon gave away, in certain areas up to 3, DCT700's due to digital transition as recent as 10/2008 (as per a Google search).

If someone is selling them they are far from stolen in my very humble opinion. Perhaps not used as defined but far from stolen.

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Yes, I am certain about that.

Verizon has never given away any STBs.  For a time, Verizon did waive the monthly fee on the DCT700, but they always retained full ownership as per the terms of service.  If you were to cancel FiOS TV and fail to return those boxes, the cost ($80-$100/ea) is reflected in your final bill.

Of course, Verizon and cable companies can't force you to pay your bill; they can only report you to creditors.  Tha reflects upon your credit rating, which has a direct impact on your ability to obtain a mortgage and/or car loan.  In the long run, a lower credit rating will cost you far more than the boxes ever could, both in the ability to obtain a loan and the terms of that loan.

Message Edited by KenAF on 05-25-2009 10:53 PM

[tjw363]

Verizon has never given away any STBs.

Apologies...... I didn't know this guy was fibbing.

http://forums.verizon.com/vrzn/board/message?board.id=FiOS_TV&message.id=1660&query.id=77177#M1660

Verizon offers a Digital Adapter w/remote (DCT700) which will provide all of the local channels, PLUS all of the SD channels you are subscribed to, but without HD channels, Guide, Widgets, VOD, etc. These boxes normally cost $3.99 (I think) but in some areas, for limited periods of time, Verizon has offered them for free, for as long as you keep FiOS at that address, due to the digital transition and you losing the local channels. I received a letter offering the digital adpater, I called and ordered a free one, got it in about 3-4 days, installed it, works just fine. And no charge on my bill. I understand that they will provide up to 3 free adapters.

[KenAF]

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@tjw363 wrote:

Verizon has never given away any STBs.

Apologies...... I didn't know this guy was fibbing.

http://forums.verizon.com/vrzn/board/message?board.id=FiOS_TV&message.id=1660&query.id=77177#M1660

Verizon offers a Digital Adapter w/remote (DCT700) which will provide all of the local channels, PLUS all of the SD channels you are subscribed to, but without HD channels, Guide, Widgets, VOD, etc. These boxes normally cost $3.99 (I think) but in some areas, for limited periods of time, Verizon has offered them for free, for as long as you keep FiOS [TV] at that address, due to the digital transition and you losing the local channels. I received a letter offering the digital adpater, I called and ordered a free one, got it in about 3-4 days, installed it, works just fine. And no charge on my bill. I understand that they will provide up to 3 free adapters.

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That guy wasn't fibbing.  Bolded for emphasis.

You don't own the boxes, you just lease them at $0/mo.  You must return them when you cancel FiOS TV.